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SM2CEW's Blog

The need for Deep Search

CW is King! Posted on %PM, April 25 2008 19:29:48

I am curious, why do people care so much about getting the calls of expeditions and new stations into the CALL3.TXT file in WSJT?

This file is essential for the Deep Search decoder, and if the call is not in that file, the fractional reception of data will not result in calls printed on the computer screen.

The author of the program, responsible for the con, says this and I quote K1JT:

Anyone who uses JT65 regularly knows that some 95% of all
QSOs using this mode have no need for the DS algorithm and
make no use of it at all.

This statement, as written, can only mean that the ones who do need DS
actually make QSO’s of less value than non-DS QSO’s? Why is the
functionality available then? smiley

Facts are:

Most all of the recently achieved DXCC’s rely heavily on Deep Search.
– 50 MHz EME rely hevily on Deep Search.
– EME DX-peditions rely heavily on Deep Search.

Some people now take pride in telling us how they use JT65, but never use DS. If
the DS concept would have been discussed before launching, would the EME
community have greeted it with open arms then?

Don’t think so. smiley

A while back many people were emptying their CALL3.TXT file to stop Deep
Search (on K1JT’s suggestion) when they discovered what it was all about.
Only to learn later that they could never switch DS off, when they put a
call in the “To Radio” box they always activated DS.

I appreciate the fact that people using JT65 take pride in not using DS, I
would just like to know why they say that??

But when K1JT says that 95% of the QSO’s made using JT65 have no need for the DS decoder, I am convinced that he is wrong. Why would every new operator, and DX-expedtion, be so eager to be in listed in the file if it had no effect on their EME operations?

No, the truth is that DS is providing QSO’s that aren’t QSO’s, and the impatient digital operator doesn’t mind the cheating this service is providing.

Has there ever been a need for a CW operator to get his call into a text file on a computer to be able to make QSO’s?

Of course not! smiley

CW is King!

73 de Peter SM2CEW

73 de Peter, SM2CEW

Deep Search vs the Truth

CW is King! Posted on %PM, April 20 2008 16:54:39

No matter what people like DF2ZC says in attempts to justify Deep Search, it is clear that he and others just drift around in circles.

Implying that the decoder is actually fullfilling the requirement of transferring full QSO data is nothing but a lame excuse for wanting everything, without putting in the real effort.

Klaus DJ5HG explains very well the truth behind the decoder, and the full concept.

This DS concept is only there because K1JT decided that a modern operator doesn’t have the patience to wait. Wait for an EME signal to be strong enough, or for the time when his station is REALLY capable of transferring the required information via the EME path.

The decision to releive the operator from the wait was the only way to gain the desired boost in interest for his digital software. JT44 and JT65 in it’s original form was not performing so well compared to traditional modes that it created enough of a crowd, apparently.

So, “extra dB’s” of sensitivity was invented, but as we now this is not the real truth.

I am often accused of talking rubbish (again today.. I quote “That is rubbish!”) when I say that the DS decoder is filling in missing information. Well, in all aspects it is doing just that!

How else can receiving fractions of a message, matching it with a full message, and then printing the full message not be filling in of information?! I don’t care if information technology calls this something else, this is what is going on.

So, something that was never received is presented to the impatient operator in full, as it is (and must be) known in advance. This is done just because someone (K1JT) decided that a modern operator can not wait long enough.

Then we come to the real issue, namely the demand from K1JT, DF2ZC and others that these so called contacts “must” be considered as valid, with full status for all known purposes.

– Do I need to say that I disagree..?!

Let’s move now to the IARU Region 1 meteorscatter procedure. This procedure is essentially identical to the old and well established EME procedure. Not one of the presently active Eu meteorscatter operators accept a QSO as being complete, without full copy of the required information, meaning all characters. This is taken to the extreme many times, and contacts are rejected if any of the information is missing or wrong.

We are still talking about digital transfer (FSK), but the same crowd that happily accepts K1JT’s fractional DS decoder concept for EME contacts, now dismiss such a concept for meteor scatter.

Partly, this is of course because there is an established and well documented IARU Region 1 MS procedure. K1JT even programmed his FSK441 software to comply with this procedure, and it is selectable.

But it is also because when playing meteorscatter the operator doesn’t have to wait for signals to get stronger, or for his radio station to grow to proper proportions to copy signals. Meteorscatter is just easier, so even the impatient accepts a full transfer procedure.

I feel that this is hypocrisy, and it can only be explained by returning to the fact that some want it all, for little or nothing.

And in this regard Deep Search has delivered, big time.

But, as I state in my article ( the one man decision is also leading us on a trail away from RF transfer of information, to a “let the computer fill in what you need to make this impossible contact” situation that is deteriorating our hobby.

The best outcome would be if for instance the IARU Region 1, being the region with most insight into VHF/UHF/SHF operations, would look at this as they did with the meteorscatter procedure. That is, continue the work that was started in Vienna in 2007, namely defining the criteria for a valid digital QSO.

Meanwhile, sponsors of award programs like DXCC should revise their decision to mix contacts of less value with contacts of historical status. The same goes for events like the ARRL EME contest, where the divison should be made in dates, not in 100+ categories.

And I think a good discussion for the EME meeting in Florence 2008 would be how to highlight and sponsor RF transfer, while minimizing the “assistance” via internet loggers, AND doped computer decoding concepts.

We would all benefit from that, and we would also prove that David G4DHF is right;

RF is King!

When saying so, he defined our mutual goal, in very few words. And I think that you all now know what this means!

And when pumping out RF in the form of dots and dashes, we certainly have the most fun!

CW is King!

73 de Peter SM2CEW

The ARRL EME Contest

CW is King! Posted on %PM, April 19 2008 13:40:29

This has been published on DF6NA’s moonbounce email reflectors, but as many people are not subscribing to that reflector I also publish it here.

I know that my thoughts are shared by many moonbouncers.

I can remember when the ARRL EME Competition was the highlight of the year for moonbouncers. The rules were clear, and easy to understand. Reading the results and comments in QST was something to look forward to, and achievements were never questioned, insted they encouraged us mere mortals to push on forward, and improve our stations and operating practices.

Not so any more… the way the contest is handled is a total insult to those participating, especially those who praise fair game and contesting.

Why have we seen this transformation from a highly respected event to an embarrassing soap opera?

Well, the reason is clear, it’s because of the constant maneuvering with new rules, and the total lack of enforcement of rules.

A bit of background information:

After the 2006 EME contest I sent a formal protest to the contest committee regarding stations who openly violated the rules. I also forwarded a number of logger and cluster extracts to show the committee what had been going on, and pinpointed the violations in these documents. This was also the sole reason for me entering “Assisted” category that year, as I had been monitoring loggers and clusters (of no use to me as a CW operator).

A while later, I was sent the full contest database, with the request to help identify the stations who were violating the rules. I did so, and sent the information back to the ARRL, hoping for a bit of correspondence regarding this issue. I received an acknowledgement that they had received the information.

When the results were finally published, I discovered that a number of stations had been moved to “Check Log”, instead of being disqualified. As we all know, K1JT has been telling us that HE (and only he) examined the contest results, in search for violations of the rules. This he said, was in the interest of keeping it a fair game, and to enforce the rules.

Well, the only thing he did was to save his friends from the embarrassment of being disqualified, so it is clear that some officials at the ARRL are not at all interested in a fair game.

– Why bring this up at this point then?

Well, only to point at the fact that since 2006 the same person responsible for the above blocking of rule enforcement was involved in yet another revision of the contest rules, namely in 2007.

Too eager to share the thoughts with the community, K1JT presented the new rules even before the ARRL had them on their website.

The analyzis of the rules, presented together with (one) version of the results, is clear, and on the ARRL webpage we can read the following statemend from Ward Silver N0AX:

144 categories, to be exact. Only 28 categories had entries from a total of 184 entries, so perhaps this pie is being sliced a bit too narrowly?

So, is there a reason for creating so many as 144 categories in one contest..??

Of course there is, everything is now so sliced up that a disqualification should not be an issue any more, as no one has the ability to understand the rules any more. Let alone send a formal protest..

– Am I wrong in drawing these conclusisons…?

Don’t think so.. not even the ARRL have been able to present the correct results, despit many attempts. And the results published in QST Magazine still stands as the only printed results, and they will probably never be corrected. Why embarrass even more people by putting it right?

My “verdict” over all of this is, that when we let one man dominate EME, and decide for all others, this is what to expect!

These actions are not possible to sweep under the carpet, because the contest is ruined for all future as it seems now. There will still be people entering the contest, of course, but it is not a contest any more. It is a joke of a contest, serving no purpose other than acting as an activity enhancer.

This is good however, we need stations populating our bands. But the so called records set under present circumstances have absolutely NO value, and are not to be compared to the records set when the ARRL EME Competition was a true contest, based on a fair game for everyone.

Let’s not be fooled into thinking something else.

CW is King!

73 de Peter SM2CEW

Small stuff works..

CW is King! Posted on %PM, March 30 2008 14:16:36

I just need to tell you this story about a meteorscatter QSO I had today on 144 MHz with Toralf DJ8MS at a distance of >1400km.

Meteorscatter is like fishing, you never know what to expect. Toralf and I have made numerous QSO’s reflecting signals via meteor trails before, but this time the antenna at his end was certainly a bit different.

Take a look at this picture… Can you spot the antenna??

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Yes, it’s an HB9CV, strung up with ropes in Toralfs apartment window, pointing north.. With a Mickey Mouse lookalike “Twiggle” dangling on the RG-58 feedline..

We completed via meteorscatter in about 10 minutes, and Toralf was running 150w into the HB9CV.

CW QSO of course?!? No, we used DIGITAL mode, WSJT FSK441..!!

Digital mode… SM2CEW…??! Yes, it is for real… occasionally I am using digital modes.

FSK441 transfer is character by character, just like with CW, only at higher speed.

So, what is sent is also being decoded, and there is no Deep Search database to fake a QSO by filling in stuff that was never received.

Well done Toralf, your HB9CV in the window is reaching out very well! I know, because just like in CW, all of the info was passed via the radio.

CW is King!

73 de Peter SM2CEW

Third party involved.. ?!

CW is King! Posted on %PM, March 17 2008 22:13:16

I am not that involved with the N0UK JT65 EME chat, but it for some reason my desire to highlight some of the goodies going on there can make me the third party of a QSO…

Check this out, it’s a beautiful logger talk through QSO-session between HB9Q, DF2ZC and HL4GHT. Bernd and Dan are carrying on as usual, chatting away so they won’t loose the grip of this rare DX station ..

– HL4HGT…pse ur freq, Kim? (DF2ZC Bernd)
– 144.150. JT6B (HL4GHT Kim)
– HL4GHT Kim, I will call you next period! GL! (HB9Q Dan)
– Dan, thanks (HL4GHT Kim)
– HL4HGT….Kim, is possible after Dan? (DF2ZC Bernd)
– 155900 3 -22 2.5 242 1 * HL4GHT HB9Q JN47 1 10 (HL4GHT Kim)
– HL4GHT Kim, please do not spot details of an ongoing QSO! (HB9Q Dan)smiley
– HL4HGT…..calling you now after Dan, Kim. yes? (DF2ZC Bernd)
– HL4GHT Kim, mni tnx fr fb QSO! 160000 0 -26 2.5 -11 2 * HB9Q HL4GHT PM35 0 6 (HB9Q Dan)
– Bernd, ok (HL4GHT Kim)
– sri…txd wrong callsign HL4HGT…now correct HL4GHT (DF2ZC Bernd)smiley
– Bernd, thanks nice qso. (HL4GHT Kim)
– 160900 2 -25 2.5 223 3 * HL4GHT DF2ZC JO30 1 10 (HL4GHT Kim)
– HL4GHT…Kim, pse continue…with callsigns not complete yet (DF2ZC Bernd)smiley
– Callsigns and if you copy me O (DF2ZC Bernd)smiley
– 161500 3 -25 2.5 223 3 * HL4GHT DF2ZC JO30 1 10 (HL4GHT Kim)
– HL4GHT….nw rx ur 73s, many thanks for nice QSO. only my 2nd HL station 🙂 (DF2ZC Bernd)
– 162400 2 -30 -190 1 73 (DF2ZC Bernd)

– SM2CEW? Did you take all notes Peter or do you want me to send you a transcript? 😉 (DF2ZC Bernd)

There it is…!! The third party traffic.. and I was not even there at the time..smiley

Bernd could sense that this would end up on my blog, I just wonder why…?

Could it be because he knew that the contact would never have taken place without explicit instructions to HL4GHT what to send, and when..?

Of course that’s the reason. And I am being treated as the third party, the book keeper in SM2.. love it..smiley

As Philippe said to Bernd after his “QSO”:

– well done bernd!! (F1DUZ)

I agree!

By the way, this past weekend I took part in the Dubus 432 MHz CW EME contest.
It was pure fun, all random, and all contacts were made via the radio!

– Needless to say, CW is King!
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73 de Peter SM2CEW

What is copied at -31dB?

CW is King! Posted on %PM, February 23 2008 16:22:22

W7GJ told us this on the Moon-Net reflector:

It was definitely worth getting up at 4 am this morning! I completed with JD1BMP on 2m at 1141Z, and then completed with BY7PP on 6m at 1216Z. Both were new DXCC for me, and the BY7PP contact was the first EME contact from BY, and a first for North America on 6m.

BY7PP was running a single Create 6 element yagi, horizontally polarized, aimed at the horizon on their moonrise, with 100w. Their JT65A signal was only -31 dB here – obviously the absolute minimum signal possible for me – I had not really expected to copy anything from them until they get more power, so I was quite pleasantly surprised! Degredation today was 2.9 dB and Kp index was 2.3“

Well.. choosing the word “copy” is highly misleading, to say the least. But it is part of the marketing of JT65, and Deep Search in particular. So it is no surprise that this word is chosen, check out my “History of a con artist” below for more reference regarding this.

At the signal level reported, very little is actually copied, the rest is filled in from the information in the “To Radio:” box of the program.

DL8EBW who is an active moonbouncer once told a friend on a chatboard that the way to get a small station in the log is to set the sync negative, and switch on “Agressive decode”. Then you just have to sit back and wait for the right call to pop up. After that he said, you can put the parameters back to default.

So how much information was actually received at W7GJ that morning? smiley
– Not even information equivalent to two characters is the answer… smiley

Thats pretty good DXCC value for those fragments of information received..! smiley

One particular German say, that when I present this information, I also qualify for membership in a group who believe that the earth is a disk..

Well, I can tell you.. the people who say this are part of the group who believe that the Deep Search module in JT65 is capable of decoding full EME messages… smiley


– QSO’s made using the Deep Search module are worth nothing.
– A DXCC award achieved by using the Deep Search module is worth nothing!

CW is King!
73 de Peter SM2CEW

New country in the log, first XX to YY…!

CW is King! Posted on %PM, February 23 2008 15:56:31

Another “First” was claimed last night.. this time for 432 MHz and it was HB to BY, or BY to HB, which ever way we twist it.

Are we impressed.. not the least. This is another example of a QSO that never would have take place without parallell liason via the internet chatboard N0UK.

Again, another night at the N0UK EME Café:

– BY7PPWong can we try at 2meter after? will have good groundgain in 10 minutes(PE1L)
– sked on 432, we will come back 2m (BY7PP)
– Dan, now lsn u on 432.0764( BY7PP)
– BY7PP Wong, okay, pse call on my echo! (HB9Q)
– Dan, can u read me?(BY7PP)
– BY7PP Wong, have trace, pse go-on! (HB9Q)
– Dan, u rx freq pes? (BY7PP)
– BY7PP Wong, I have trace, no decode yet, pse go-on! (HB9Q)
– Dan, now Tx on 432077, Rx on 432076.3 (BY7PP)
– BY7PP Wong, 432.077 (HB9Q)
– Dan, my rx tx also set to 432077? (BY7PP)
– BY7PP Wong, pse tx on 076.3, exctly where you rx my signal! (HB9Q)
– i promisse i will never take 70cm on my next expeditions! (PE1L)
– BY7PP Wong, too weak… tnx fr test! let’s try later again! GL! (HB9Q)
– pe1l u can work 3 or 4 stn…hi (DL9MS)
– Dan, call u now (BY7PP)
– HB9Q Dan you take a lot of time from people who like to work a new # !!(PA0ZH) – PA0ZH yes and no, he likes to work the first 432 from BY as well… so it is his call!(HB9Q)
========= CQ 432.065 1st ++++++++++ (BY7PP)
– BY7PP Wong, keep going! (HB9Q)
– HB9Q Dan, u still on 432077? (BY7PP)
– BY7PP Wong , no 065 you 1st! (HB9Q)
– Dan, now 065, 7PP 1st (BY7PP)
– BY7PP Wong getting strong now! (HB9Q)
– BY7PP Wong, congrats! mni tnx fr QSO, best -24! (HB9Q)
– HB9Q Dan, Tnx you new DXCC on 70cm , 73 GL!! (BY7PP)
– BY7PP Wong, mni tnx! what is ur ant and pwr and my report please? (HB9Q)
– Dan, u best -18, my setup 70W and 2×20 (BY7PP)
– BY7PP Wong, many thanks! vy 73! (HB9Q)
– Dan, BY7PP is u new DXCC on 70cm? (BY7PP)
– BY7PP Wong, yes, first ever on 432! (HB9Q)
– Dan, I think, this’s 1st BY-HB 70cm EME QSO (BY7PP)


Yes, a first ever, what a highlight in EME history.

Compare this to the challenge of working VP6DX expedition active from Ducie Island on the HF bands just now. There the super operators at both ends dig out calls, reports and acknowledgement to complete the contact, without prior knowledge, and without a parallell real time communication link !

The HB – BY “EME-QSO” achievement is lightyears behind the value of a VP6DX expedition QSO, but for DXCC the contacts are equal. Don’t tell me this is OK..

CW is King!
73 de Peter SM2CEW

Dumbing down of EME?

CW is King! Posted on %PM, February 23 2008 15:23:10

You know that I have said it before, but the JT65 Deep Search module is part of the dumbing down of our beloved moonbounce hobby..

But fortunately, with the help of chatboard loggers (!!) people can be put straight.. if only the experienced take time, or have the guts to do it.

Our sincere thanks this time for helping out go to KB8RQ and W7MEM.. else VE6CPP probably would have counted HS2CRU as a new DXCC..

From the N0UK Digital café:

01:51 Ahh.. I messed up again!! HS2CRU ?? (VE6CPP)
01:53 I think i missed a decode when i changed freq.. thats twice
now! Ime learning! lol de (VE6CPP)
01:54 VE6CPP would you like to try a few sequences with
me? (W0PT)
01:54 we can try Bill.. ime running outta Moon here.. .127? (VE6CPP)
01:55 VE6CPP Jer what frequency you on? I copied you a while
ago at -23. (KB8RQ)
01:56 .127.. copied HS2CRU sending me a Rpt.. (VE6CPP)

01:56 qsy to .112.. 1st.. (VE6CPP)
01:56 That is a false decode. I have been on 127 for a long time. (KB8RQ)
01:58 Anything with a ? mark is a false decode. (KB8RQ)

01:58 013700 0 -5 6.6 59 1 # VE6CPP HS2CRU OK03 OOO 0 8 ? (VE6CPP)

02:00 I think it was when i chngd freq.. went to look for another
02:00 There is a ? mark at the end. That means it is a bad decode. (KB8RQ)
02:01 No.. the ? was from me !! I think it was a Gud Decode.. just
Inexperienced Op’ that QSY’d too fast!! (VE6CPP)

02:05 HS2CRU OK03 Does not even have a moon for many hours yet. (KB8RQ)
02:07 I belive HS2CRU is also QRT (W7MEM)”


So, HS2CRU did not have moon… ouch… and he is known to be QRT… double ouch..

But, isn’t it amazing though, when we think about it..

The false decode “accidentally” contains this newcomers exact call, and the other station IS sending him a report..!!

So, we are back where we started, how can we ever trust people who claim they worked this or that, when the Deep Search module invented by K1JT was doing the work for them..??!

To me it is still unbelievable that so called QSO’s by using the Deep Search module gain the same status as regular old CW/SSB QSO’s for contests, DXCC or other award programs.

For obvious reasons,
CW is King!!

73 de Peter SM2CEW

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