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SM2CEW's Blog

What is copied at -31dB?

CW is King! Posted on %PM, February 23 2008 16:22:22

W7GJ told us this on the Moon-Net reflector:

It was definitely worth getting up at 4 am this morning! I completed with JD1BMP on 2m at 1141Z, and then completed with BY7PP on 6m at 1216Z. Both were new DXCC for me, and the BY7PP contact was the first EME contact from BY, and a first for North America on 6m.

BY7PP was running a single Create 6 element yagi, horizontally polarized, aimed at the horizon on their moonrise, with 100w. Their JT65A signal was only -31 dB here – obviously the absolute minimum signal possible for me – I had not really expected to copy anything from them until they get more power, so I was quite pleasantly surprised! Degredation today was 2.9 dB and Kp index was 2.3“

Well.. choosing the word “copy” is highly misleading, to say the least. But it is part of the marketing of JT65, and Deep Search in particular. So it is no surprise that this word is chosen, check out my “History of a con artist” below for more reference regarding this.

At the signal level reported, very little is actually copied, the rest is filled in from the information in the “To Radio:” box of the program.

DL8EBW who is an active moonbouncer once told a friend on a chatboard that the way to get a small station in the log is to set the sync negative, and switch on “Agressive decode”. Then you just have to sit back and wait for the right call to pop up. After that he said, you can put the parameters back to default.

So how much information was actually received at W7GJ that morning? smiley
– Not even information equivalent to two characters is the answer… smiley

Thats pretty good DXCC value for those fragments of information received..! smiley

One particular German say, that when I present this information, I also qualify for membership in a group who believe that the earth is a disk..

Well, I can tell you.. the people who say this are part of the group who believe that the Deep Search module in JT65 is capable of decoding full EME messages… smiley


– QSO’s made using the Deep Search module are worth nothing.
– A DXCC award achieved by using the Deep Search module is worth nothing!

CW is King!
73 de Peter SM2CEW

New country in the log, first XX to YY…!

CW is King! Posted on %PM, February 23 2008 15:56:31

Another “First” was claimed last night.. this time for 432 MHz and it was HB to BY, or BY to HB, which ever way we twist it.

Are we impressed.. not the least. This is another example of a QSO that never would have take place without parallell liason via the internet chatboard N0UK.

Again, another night at the N0UK EME Café:

– BY7PPWong can we try at 2meter after? will have good groundgain in 10 minutes(PE1L)
– sked on 432, we will come back 2m (BY7PP)
– Dan, now lsn u on 432.0764( BY7PP)
– BY7PP Wong, okay, pse call on my echo! (HB9Q)
– Dan, can u read me?(BY7PP)
– BY7PP Wong, have trace, pse go-on! (HB9Q)
– Dan, u rx freq pes? (BY7PP)
– BY7PP Wong, I have trace, no decode yet, pse go-on! (HB9Q)
– Dan, now Tx on 432077, Rx on 432076.3 (BY7PP)
– BY7PP Wong, 432.077 (HB9Q)
– Dan, my rx tx also set to 432077? (BY7PP)
– BY7PP Wong, pse tx on 076.3, exctly where you rx my signal! (HB9Q)
– i promisse i will never take 70cm on my next expeditions! (PE1L)
– BY7PP Wong, too weak… tnx fr test! let’s try later again! GL! (HB9Q)
– pe1l u can work 3 or 4 stn…hi (DL9MS)
– Dan, call u now (BY7PP)
– HB9Q Dan you take a lot of time from people who like to work a new # !!(PA0ZH) – PA0ZH yes and no, he likes to work the first 432 from BY as well… so it is his call!(HB9Q)
========= CQ 432.065 1st ++++++++++ (BY7PP)
– BY7PP Wong, keep going! (HB9Q)
– HB9Q Dan, u still on 432077? (BY7PP)
– BY7PP Wong , no 065 you 1st! (HB9Q)
– Dan, now 065, 7PP 1st (BY7PP)
– BY7PP Wong getting strong now! (HB9Q)
– BY7PP Wong, congrats! mni tnx fr QSO, best -24! (HB9Q)
– HB9Q Dan, Tnx you new DXCC on 70cm , 73 GL!! (BY7PP)
– BY7PP Wong, mni tnx! what is ur ant and pwr and my report please? (HB9Q)
– Dan, u best -18, my setup 70W and 2×20 (BY7PP)
– BY7PP Wong, many thanks! vy 73! (HB9Q)
– Dan, BY7PP is u new DXCC on 70cm? (BY7PP)
– BY7PP Wong, yes, first ever on 432! (HB9Q)
– Dan, I think, this’s 1st BY-HB 70cm EME QSO (BY7PP)


Yes, a first ever, what a highlight in EME history.

Compare this to the challenge of working VP6DX expedition active from Ducie Island on the HF bands just now. There the super operators at both ends dig out calls, reports and acknowledgement to complete the contact, without prior knowledge, and without a parallell real time communication link !

The HB – BY “EME-QSO” achievement is lightyears behind the value of a VP6DX expedition QSO, but for DXCC the contacts are equal. Don’t tell me this is OK..

CW is King!
73 de Peter SM2CEW

Dumbing down of EME?

CW is King! Posted on %PM, February 23 2008 15:23:10

You know that I have said it before, but the JT65 Deep Search module is part of the dumbing down of our beloved moonbounce hobby..

But fortunately, with the help of chatboard loggers (!!) people can be put straight.. if only the experienced take time, or have the guts to do it.

Our sincere thanks this time for helping out go to KB8RQ and W7MEM.. else VE6CPP probably would have counted HS2CRU as a new DXCC..

From the N0UK Digital café:

01:51 Ahh.. I messed up again!! HS2CRU ?? (VE6CPP)
01:53 I think i missed a decode when i changed freq.. thats twice
now! Ime learning! lol de (VE6CPP)
01:54 VE6CPP would you like to try a few sequences with
me? (W0PT)
01:54 we can try Bill.. ime running outta Moon here.. .127? (VE6CPP)
01:55 VE6CPP Jer what frequency you on? I copied you a while
ago at -23. (KB8RQ)
01:56 .127.. copied HS2CRU sending me a Rpt.. (VE6CPP)

01:56 qsy to .112.. 1st.. (VE6CPP)
01:56 That is a false decode. I have been on 127 for a long time. (KB8RQ)
01:58 Anything with a ? mark is a false decode. (KB8RQ)

01:58 013700 0 -5 6.6 59 1 # VE6CPP HS2CRU OK03 OOO 0 8 ? (VE6CPP)

02:00 I think it was when i chngd freq.. went to look for another
02:00 There is a ? mark at the end. That means it is a bad decode. (KB8RQ)
02:01 No.. the ? was from me !! I think it was a Gud Decode.. just
Inexperienced Op’ that QSY’d too fast!! (VE6CPP)

02:05 HS2CRU OK03 Does not even have a moon for many hours yet. (KB8RQ)
02:07 I belive HS2CRU is also QRT (W7MEM)”


So, HS2CRU did not have moon… ouch… and he is known to be QRT… double ouch..

But, isn’t it amazing though, when we think about it..

The false decode “accidentally” contains this newcomers exact call, and the other station IS sending him a report..!!

So, we are back where we started, how can we ever trust people who claim they worked this or that, when the Deep Search module invented by K1JT was doing the work for them..??!

To me it is still unbelievable that so called QSO’s by using the Deep Search module gain the same status as regular old CW/SSB QSO’s for contests, DXCC or other award programs.

For obvious reasons,
CW is King!!

73 de Peter SM2CEW